A couple of thoughts on equality issues

[cumaeansibyl]

When women characterize men as muscle-brained, penis-controlled buffoons, they are contributing to the idea that men "can't help" behaving badly, and are therefore not responsible for their actions or their contributions to a sexist society.

White privilege does not mean that you get the power to ruin black people's lives at will and a platinum yacht; in many cases, it's the difference between a crappy job or bankruptcy, or between probation and a jail term. The worthlessness of your white life does not invalidate your privilege.

I wonder, sometimes, when we were supposed to start caring about what total strangers think of us. It must have happened -- otherwise, why would white liberals tell people of color to stop "self-segregating"? Why would men tell women that their feminist anger "isn't helping"? Why would straight people criticize gay pride activists for being "too flamboyant"? I must have missed the memo -- I thought we only had to care about the opinions of people we actually know. Silly me.

Comments

[kadath.livejournal.com]

How many Honky Points do I have to earn to get the yacht?

[ashley-y.livejournal.com]

About 300000000. (http://roqdemar.com/infozone-en/content.php?article.128)

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Damn. There's privilege, and then there's privilege.

[xambrius.livejournal.com]

It would be more accurate to say that most people believe you should care about the opinions of people who (for whatever reason) have the power to affect you in a negative way. I probably won't know the NC state trooper who just pulled me over for doing 72 in a 60 zone, but the degree of concern I have for his opinion will probably correlate with my chance to be let off with just a warning.

--
Tim Harris
The Seeker
Time Lord

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

What gets on my nerves, though, is that a lot of white liberal types come on like the whole equal-rights thing will just wither and die without their tender love. They haven't realized, of course, that they really don't have the power they think they do.

[corivax.livejournal.com]

Doesn't the whole equal-rights thing require everyone to get on board, more or less, and wither without anyone's love?

[calieber.livejournal.com]

Lemme see if I got this (and I mean that non-sarcastically):

Privilege doesn't mean that all white people live in mansions and all black people live on the street (pretending for the sake of simplicity that everyone is either white or black). That's clearly not the case, anyway, and there is indeed privilege, so that can't be what it means. It doesn't mean that it's absolutely better to be white than black, regardless of other circumstances.

Privilege means that, all else being equal, it's better (in the sense of more advantageous) to be white than black. It means even if I thought my life were crappy, it would be crappier if I were black, and while I suspect the black guy in the office down the hall has a pretty cozy existence, it would be cozier still if he were white.

Have I got it?

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

Pretty much. I think of it as being worry-free -- you never have to think about race relations, or worry about being discriminated against, the way that non-white people do. And being worry-free may not be the same as having a platinum yacht, but it's definitely a privilege.

[miss-manners.livejournal.com]

you never have to think about race relations, or worry about being discriminated against

While I can't 100% discount some form of white privillage (the difference between probation and prison being a good example) I don't think either of those are true, ESPECIALLY for whites at the bottom of the economic ladder.

In fact, in some economic senses it is better to NOT be white or male, mainly being the bottom of the working class, because there are large efforts to emeliorate the advantages of being white. A classic example, take a large middle/working class high school. A white student is in the top 5% in his class on 1% on the SATs but didn't do well enough to get a scholarship and winds up joining the service to pay for college while a minority student at the same school does worse in school and on the SATs than our white student but the lead state university gives him a four year ride because he's a minority. When the white student, who got no real graduation gift, gets picked up by his minority friend in the Trans Am he got for graduation to go out and party how do you sell "white privillage" to the white student? How do you tell him he wasn't discriminated against?

Or take a white family living in a poor urban neighborhood. Do you think the children don't recieve abuse about being white at school and in the neighborhood? Does being white make it any easier to be the only white kid in a tough neighborhood in a heroin town?

I think this why it's hard to sell white privillage to those in lower economic classes...and why your two statements, while probably true in the professional and upper middle classes don't work in the working and lower classes.

[trianakvetch.livejournal.com]

unless being white is the minority in the world/area/situation you live in.

Also

[calieber.livejournal.com]

"Flamboyant" in that conext means gazing at your same-sex partner and evincing some degree of affection three feet from where my girlfriend and I are making out with my hand up her shirt, right?

Re: Also

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

Yep! Because that's gross and you shouldn't rub it in other people's faces. Homosexuality is fine just as long as I don't have to acknowledge that actual homosexual people exist in the same time zone as me.

Re: Also

[nanimo.livejournal.com]

In my experience, they're frequently allowed to be homosexual. Sometimes they're allowed to date. They just have to stay completly chaste, because otherwise it's gross. Just like fat people.

[junglemonkee.livejournal.com]

I think that being white is like being Christian. People who are in that space are completely blind to the fact that our society is entirely structured with them in mind. My second husband, the stereotypical straight white Christian male, literally had no idea that racism, sexism, etc., were still an issue in our society, since he himself had never seen it in play. And then I came into the picture and he realized that his own family is RIFE with it. His mother clutches her purse a little closer to her and walks faster when she's walking past "those damn Mexicans lounging outside every Home Depot." (Oh - those guys LOOKING FOR WORK? Those loungers?) His stepfather watches some dancers and says that "Of course all the male dancers are black. They're the only ones who can dance."

And he supports every bill that would send illegal immigrants scurrying back to the paradises whence they came ever since he was passed over for a promotion, which went to a Mexican guy with a college degree. My ex thought college was a "waste of time." Much the same way he thinks being Mexican is a waste of time, I guess.

[robynkitty.livejournal.com]

this is sooooo a peep! I don't believe the avatar! :D

[nanimo.livejournal.com]

That's an awesome analogy. Unless you object, I am quite likely to steal it.

[junglemonkee.livejournal.com]

I don't object at all!

[ashley-y.livejournal.com]

Dude, it's 1-800-PT-YACHT.

[miss-manners.livejournal.com]

you never have to think about race relations, or worry about being discriminated against

While I can't 100% discount some form of white privillage (the difference between probation and prison being a good example) I don't think either of those are true, ESPECIALLY for whites at the bottom of the economic ladder.

In fact, in some economic senses it is better to NOT be white or male, mainly being the bottom of the working class, because there are large efforts to emeliorate the advantages of being white. A classic example, take a large middle/working class high school. A white student is in the top 5% in his class on 1% on the SATs but didn't do well enough to get a scholarship and winds up joining the service to pay for college while a minority student at the same school does worse in school and on the SATs than our white student but the lead state university gives him a four year ride because he's a minority. When the white student, who got no real graduation gift, gets picked up by his minority friend in the Trans Am he got for graduation to go out and party how do you sell "white privillage" to the white student? How do you tell him he wasn't discriminated against?

Or take a white family living in a poor urban neighborhood. Do you think the children don't recieve abuse about being white at school and in the neighborhood? Does being white make it any easier to be the only white kid in a tough neighborhood in a heroin town?

I think this why it's hard to sell white privillage to those in lower economic classes...and why your two statements, while probably true in the professional and upper middle classes don't work in the working and lower classes.

[lysana.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, could I do a riff on the truth of male privilege with your commentary on white privilege as a base.

And I'm not arguing anything you said. I know damn well I have privilege due to my race. My gender just throws a different spin on the axis. I'm going to only give a very passing nod to my family history with being pale-skinned yet not equally privileged due to ethnicity so you don't feel like whapping me in the face with a bingo card. ;) Knowing that people in my family tree put up with parallel sorts of crap enhanced my understanding of what I don't have to put up with is my point.

[mepoindexter.livejournal.com]

How incredibly cynical.

You should smile.

[cumaeansibyl.livejournal.com]

Do you make a practice of missing the point to annoy people, or are you really this obtuse?

[mepoindexter.livejournal.com]

Now now, Miss Sibyl, personal attacks won't get us anywhere.

But I think that's my point.

Why so callus?